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	<title>Comments on: The Oranges of Zeus Plug</title>
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	<link>https://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066</link>
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		<title>By: Foo</title>
		<link>https://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066&#038;cpage=1#comment-1010</link>
		<dc:creator>Foo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066#comment-1010</guid>
		<description>Hey - Jono posted out a couple of issues of ZB to me before I attended the Wellington pub meets. Was he being naughty? ;)

Re: reviews and the writers of books/audios reading these reviews - I had Nick Griffiths, the writer of the book Dalek I Loved You subscribe (possibly just to a single issue) to TSV off the basis of it having a review of his book that I had written (really enjoyed his book too BTW).

Adam decided not to include it, along with a number of other reviews I had done which was a little disappointing. I understand that editorial decisions of this nature need to be taken, but it would be nice to know, rather than TSV arriving and realising &#039;Oh, they&#039;re not here...&#039;

Oh well, Nick did say that he enjoyed TSV anyway, and that&#039;s what is important! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey &#8211; Jono posted out a couple of issues of ZB to me before I attended the Wellington pub meets. Was he being naughty? <img src='https://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Re: reviews and the writers of books/audios reading these reviews &#8211; I had Nick Griffiths, the writer of the book Dalek I Loved You subscribe (possibly just to a single issue) to TSV off the basis of it having a review of his book that I had written (really enjoyed his book too BTW).</p>
<p>Adam decided not to include it, along with a number of other reviews I had done which was a little disappointing. I understand that editorial decisions of this nature need to be taken, but it would be nice to know, rather than TSV arriving and realising &#8216;Oh, they&#8217;re not here&#8230;&#8217;</p>
<p>Oh well, Nick did say that he enjoyed TSV anyway, and that&#8217;s what is important! <img src='https://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: the_other_dave</title>
		<link>https://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066&#038;cpage=1#comment-984</link>
		<dc:creator>the_other_dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066#comment-984</guid>
		<description>No worries.  My hope was driven more by the curiousity killing me if it was, rather than concern of actually causing offence.

As for TSV being passed about UK fans, prehaps we should have a marketing campaign - &quot;TSV, it&#039;s even cheaper in pounds&quot; ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No worries.  My hope was driven more by the curiousity killing me if it was, rather than concern of actually causing offence.</p>
<p>As for TSV being passed about UK fans, prehaps we should have a marketing campaign &#8211; &#8220;TSV, it&#8217;s even cheaper in pounds&#8221; <img src='https://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Paul Scoones</title>
		<link>https://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066&#038;cpage=1#comment-983</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Scoones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066#comment-983</guid>
		<description>Dave - no, it wasn&#039;t one of yours (and it wasn&#039;t one of Peter&#039;s either).

I too felt a twinge of awkwardness from time to time with reviewing items written by people who subscribed to TSV. I didn&#039;t let it guide my views though. 

It wasn&#039;t just the subscribers either; I discovered that TSV got passed around a bit in UK fandom so even some writers who weren&#039;t on the mailing list knew what was being said in the zine about their work. One writer once brought up in conversation at the Fitzroy a negative review I&#039;d written of one of his books. That was an awkward moment, until he told me that he appreciated getting an honest opinion and that he thought the NZ wrtiters made better reviewers because they were removed from the bias of the UK fandom social set.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave &#8211; no, it wasn&#8217;t one of yours (and it wasn&#8217;t one of Peter&#8217;s either).</p>
<p>I too felt a twinge of awkwardness from time to time with reviewing items written by people who subscribed to TSV. I didn&#8217;t let it guide my views though. </p>
<p>It wasn&#8217;t just the subscribers either; I discovered that TSV got passed around a bit in UK fandom so even some writers who weren&#8217;t on the mailing list knew what was being said in the zine about their work. One writer once brought up in conversation at the Fitzroy a negative review I&#8217;d written of one of his books. That was an awkward moment, until he told me that he appreciated getting an honest opinion and that he thought the NZ wrtiters made better reviewers because they were removed from the bias of the UK fandom social set.</p>
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		<title>By: the_other_dave</title>
		<link>https://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066&#038;cpage=1#comment-980</link>
		<dc:creator>the_other_dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066#comment-980</guid>
		<description>I have to admit also having suffered the &quot;cringe&quot; Peter describes occasionally when I did a few of the BF audio reviews.  Never while listening, but usually soon after putting pen to paper, particularly if the writers etc had been in the letters page.

As for the departure after a bad review - I hope it wasn&#039;t one of mine...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to admit also having suffered the &#8220;cringe&#8221; Peter describes occasionally when I did a few of the BF audio reviews.  Never while listening, but usually soon after putting pen to paper, particularly if the writers etc had been in the letters page.</p>
<p>As for the departure after a bad review &#8211; I hope it wasn&#8217;t one of mine&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Peter A</title>
		<link>https://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066&#038;cpage=1#comment-979</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066#comment-979</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t want to give the impression that we decided against having reviews because of negative experiences elsewhere. For Jono and I the opportunity to do away with them offered more than it took away. We talked about it for quite a bit and agreed that neither of us are fans of reviews in particular, especially reviews for their own sake. They are a fait accompli - you can end up having to make space for them and time for staff to review them and it costs you those resources, potentially for something the reader can pick up any number of places elsewhere at their leisure.

And they give the illusion of currency to print media, which is a weak illusion in an age of file sharing and online forums.

When we ruled out interviews we suddenly had so much more space and writers who had other interesting strings to their bow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t want to give the impression that we decided against having reviews because of negative experiences elsewhere. For Jono and I the opportunity to do away with them offered more than it took away. We talked about it for quite a bit and agreed that neither of us are fans of reviews in particular, especially reviews for their own sake. They are a fait accompli &#8211; you can end up having to make space for them and time for staff to review them and it costs you those resources, potentially for something the reader can pick up any number of places elsewhere at their leisure.</p>
<p>And they give the illusion of currency to print media, which is a weak illusion in an age of file sharing and online forums.</p>
<p>When we ruled out interviews we suddenly had so much more space and writers who had other interesting strings to their bow.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Scoones</title>
		<link>https://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066&#038;cpage=1#comment-978</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Scoones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 00:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066#comment-978</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the explanation regarding reviews. TSV has had many fan-turned-pro Doctor Who writers on its subscriber list over the years - but I&#039;ve taken the view that the reviewer&#039;s honest, well-reasoned opinion of the product counts for more than the writers&#039; feelings. Only once did a pro writer (who shall remain nameless) cancel their subscription in response to a negative review of something of theirs in TSV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the explanation regarding reviews. TSV has had many fan-turned-pro Doctor Who writers on its subscriber list over the years &#8211; but I&#8217;ve taken the view that the reviewer&#8217;s honest, well-reasoned opinion of the product counts for more than the writers&#8217; feelings. Only once did a pro writer (who shall remain nameless) cancel their subscription in response to a negative review of something of theirs in TSV.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Peter A</title>
		<link>https://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066&#038;cpage=1#comment-977</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066#comment-977</guid>
		<description>Hi Paul, thanks for the comments!

3. The supplement was initiated and independently produced by myself and Jono. Especially Jono.

1. Re: Pleasing the suppliers through positive reviews. It&#039;s not something I was conscious of in TSV personally, outside of a certain interviewee connected with a product range who insisted as a condition of his interview that no reviews overly critical of his work should appear in that issue. On the other hand it was something discussed between Dave and I on a number of occasions that [my words] the distance one required for reviewing anything made by a fan-done-well shortened when you realised said fan was also a TSV subscriber. That wasn&#039;t a house rule or anything, just a &#039;cringe&#039; I felt from time to time.

2. Re: Review copies. This is something you may recall we discussed with relation to Telos. In its short life (and a credit to the then very young Jono&#039;s negotiation skills) Telos received copies of books and videos from Roadshow and Hodder Moa Beckett for the purpose of reviews and promotion. These were subsequently offered through the zine as competition prizes or [occasionally] offered to the reviewers for their efforts, both of which I was greatly supportive. 

Thanks again for the kind comments!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Paul, thanks for the comments!</p>
<p>3. The supplement was initiated and independently produced by myself and Jono. Especially Jono.</p>
<p>1. Re: Pleasing the suppliers through positive reviews. It&#8217;s not something I was conscious of in TSV personally, outside of a certain interviewee connected with a product range who insisted as a condition of his interview that no reviews overly critical of his work should appear in that issue. On the other hand it was something discussed between Dave and I on a number of occasions that [my words] the distance one required for reviewing anything made by a fan-done-well shortened when you realised said fan was also a TSV subscriber. That wasn&#8217;t a house rule or anything, just a &#8216;cringe&#8217; I felt from time to time.</p>
<p>2. Re: Review copies. This is something you may recall we discussed with relation to Telos. In its short life (and a credit to the then very young Jono&#8217;s negotiation skills) Telos received copies of books and videos from Roadshow and Hodder Moa Beckett for the purpose of reviews and promotion. These were subsequently offered through the zine as competition prizes or [occasionally] offered to the reviewers for their efforts, both of which I was greatly supportive. </p>
<p>Thanks again for the kind comments!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Scoones</title>
		<link>https://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066&#038;cpage=1#comment-976</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Scoones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusblog.tetrap.com/?p=1066#comment-976</guid>
		<description>Zeus Plug was a welcome presence at the Auckland pub meets. As you rightly observe it was usually carefully collected by readers rather than being treated as something disposable. That said, one of my ZP issues has evidence of having once been dipped in beer and used as a coaster, true to the spirit of what you intended. Fans in my experience usually hold well-produced Doctor Who items in high regard, so it was probably asking too much to expect Zeus Plug to be treated as something disposable. I&#039;ve witnessed your cited example of Concrete Elephant being coveted and carefully stowed away to take home by many presumably appreciative readers at the Fitzroy.  

Your reasons for not featuring reviews begs the question, when you were reviewing for TSV were you writing to please distributors and creators? Were you aware of others doing so? Most items of reviewed merchandise in TSV, including all Big Finish audios, BBC novels and DVDs, were not provided free by the distributors and had to be purchased.

Your line about &#039;quietly leaving the party just before the zine’s debut as a TSV supplement&#039; might be misconstrued as indicating that Zeus Plug was somehow absorbed or subsumed by TSV, so it&#039;s therefore worth clarifying that the supplement was initiated and independently produced by yourself and Jono.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zeus Plug was a welcome presence at the Auckland pub meets. As you rightly observe it was usually carefully collected by readers rather than being treated as something disposable. That said, one of my ZP issues has evidence of having once been dipped in beer and used as a coaster, true to the spirit of what you intended. Fans in my experience usually hold well-produced Doctor Who items in high regard, so it was probably asking too much to expect Zeus Plug to be treated as something disposable. I&#8217;ve witnessed your cited example of Concrete Elephant being coveted and carefully stowed away to take home by many presumably appreciative readers at the Fitzroy.  </p>
<p>Your reasons for not featuring reviews begs the question, when you were reviewing for TSV were you writing to please distributors and creators? Were you aware of others doing so? Most items of reviewed merchandise in TSV, including all Big Finish audios, BBC novels and DVDs, were not provided free by the distributors and had to be purchased.</p>
<p>Your line about &#8216;quietly leaving the party just before the zine’s debut as a TSV supplement&#8217; might be misconstrued as indicating that Zeus Plug was somehow absorbed or subsumed by TSV, so it&#8217;s therefore worth clarifying that the supplement was initiated and independently produced by yourself and Jono.</p>
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